#5: The Power of Creating Opportunity for Others with Travis Barker
In this episode, I interviewed Travis Barker, CEO of EZ IT Solutions. We had a great conversation about how Travis’s Enneagram 5 profile shows up in his leadership, what steps he’s taken to focus on his own personal development, and how much he believes in providing opportunity for those on his team.
In this episode, Travis shares:
- His very personal “why” behind starting his business.
- The challenges of building a team and letting go of a partner.
- How his Enneagram 5 profile helps him run his business.
- Lessons he’s learned about leadership and communication.
- How he really feels about his team (this is the really good stuff!).
- The importance of taking action.
Links & Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Episode 5 Transcript
DEANNA PECINA: Well, hey Travis, it’s so good to see you. I’m super excited that you agreed to be on the podcast, and actually I was, I have to be honest, I was a little, not taken aback, but really interested as to why. You were so eager and willing to come on and do this with me. And so I wanna tell you that I appreciate it and I’m looking forward to having a conversation with you about leadership today.
If you would, could you just go ahead and introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, how long you’ve been doing it, and then we can go from there.
Yes. So, my name is Travis Barker. We own an IT consulting company in Nebraska, the the Great Midwest. I’ve owned my business for almost 10 years. it’ll be 10 years next July.
TRAVIS BARKER: So I guess a little over nine. We have a small team of about six people, but, I’ve have been, I guess, aspir. In leadership my entire life and never really given the opportunities now that I actually think about it, I’ve never thought about it until I started my own business.
So, that’s a little bit about me. Just what I’m hoping to gain from leadership is trying to understand, more just how I can lead people better. So the whole point of me starting my business was to give people opportunities. I feel like I was not given the opportunities that maybe I felt like I deserved or whatever that looked like, cuz I did not have a degree when I was seeking for them.
So it was this like chicken and egg scenario of you don’t have a degree but you have the experience or vice versa, had the experience but I didn’t have the piece of paper. And so, it’s kind of like, well what, what do I do? Or how do I grow when people won’t give you those opportunities? cuz I had those experiences in the.
So it, it was just, it was very interesting and I kept hitting that roadblock until I started my own business. And my goal is to make sure that people that have the talent and motivation don’t run into those same things. And so I wanna make sure that I’m a good leader for those people. I guess that’s, that’s really, leader, That’s where leadership for me is most important, is being able to create a very good environment for my, my team.
DEANNA: You, you hit on a couple of things. First of all, I didn’t, How did I not know you were in the military?
TRAVIS: I don’t know. I feel like I talked about it before .
DEANNA: I feel like I should have known that .
You didn’t like to recognize it. For my, there usually I’m pretty good at that because, you know, my whole life, military, military brat and military spouse. So how long were you in the. I know that’s not the point of this, but I’m just curious cuz that’s a bit of information that’s important for me to understand.
TRAVIS: It’s important. , so I did two years.
DEANNA: Okay.
TRAVIS: I did have a six year contract. I got out on a general discharge because of some administrative issues with the way that my, I had a, a tad request handled. It’s, it’s, it’s kinda addressing. But. I was an E five by the time I got out.
DEANNA: Okay.
TRAVIS: So, yeah. So that, that makes sense to you. Yeah. I was meritoriously advanced very quickly.
I had a lot of awards like I, I had, I had more medals and awards than most people get in 10 years. Okay. so my chief was very upset with me. I was so, because he, he chewed me out and he was like, You know, you, you, he was like, You were on the fast track. I had a six year, contract for my ship.
He was like, You know, you were gonna be in E seven by the time you left the ship. You’re just pissed and all this. He was mad. He was, he was super . But you can relate to that .
DEANNA: Right. But that makes sense though, because the military is one of those things where there’s rules, right? And there’s certain things that you know, you have to do in order to be able to be promoted or to move ahead.
And when there’s really specific rules like that, it’s, it’s easier to know exactly what needs to happen. But when you’re outside of that environment and you’ve spoken to that, that you have the experience, but you don’t have a piece of paper or you know, those types of things, and not having the opportunity.
To be able to utilize those skill sets. So you’ve in turn created the opportunity by creating your own business?
TRAVIS: Yes, and I think so. So, you know, I’m, I’m a type five mm-hmm. and thinking about that like the military in, in my brain I see the military as a game and I played it very well. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, like you said, the rules and which is probably why I was, I was fast tracked cuz it, I adhered very, very, Yeah, it was easy for me.
Mm-hmm. , for lack of a better word, entrepreneurship, not so much . So it’s like the wild, wild best.
DEANNA: Well, I mean, so you, you create your own business and, and it’s, it’s always interesting to me because people create businesses because they, they want to, Work for themselves, or they wanna create their own thing or provide their own value.
But this really weird thing happens where you then have to become the person that provides the frameworks and the opportunity for the people that are on your team. And that can be a challenge because it requires a level of self-awareness to be able to show up and lead other people who may or may not be like,
TRAVIS: It has been difficult.
You know, we’ve gone through, I think, and part of our struggling to grow. You know, we, I’ve, I’ve had to recycle a lot of team members, even a partner. I had to fire a partner, unfortunately, because we just we’re, we did not have the same direction that we wanted to go. Mm-hmm. . And that was hard. It was really hard.
So yeah, I can, the, I’m still learning , we’ll just put it that way.
DEANNA: Well, I don’t think you ever stop. I mean, as much as we like to, to think that we we’ve learned lessons, they have ways of showing back up and teaching us the same lessons over and over again. , and that’s where a lot of the challenge can come in.
And so you’ve mentioned that you’re a. So when I say words like shy, detached, curious, reflective, private, innovating, cerebral, how do those words hit you when you hear them?
TRAVIS: can we go through ’em one at a time? Uhhuh, shy. Yeah. Yes. Not as much as I used to be. Mm-hmm. . So I think I’m naturally. . I would, I wouldn’t even necessarily call it shy as I am very self-conscious. Mm-hmm. like, you know, I wouldn’t like, I’m, and maybe, maybe they are the same thing, but I, I think I’m drawing just a little bit difference between those.
But yes, that I would say yes.
DEANNA: So would you say you’re more introverted versus extroverted?
TRAVIS: Oh, Yep. Bar none. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve known since I was like 10 that I was an introvert. Mm-hmm. and people were like, Go play with other kids. I don’t want to . No, don’t make me do that. Well, and fives are, I’m sorry, go ahead.
No, I was gonna say, but it’s interesting because even though I’m an introvert, I like speaking engagements and I like teaching. So I don’t know where that plays into it.
DEANNA: Well, so fives they. Want to know all the things, and so fives will become experts in a particular area. So even you saying that the military was like a game that tells me that very quickly you were able to go in and learn everything that you could and apply it to the situation.
Fives like to. Collect knowledge. They’re very intellectual and very cerebral, and they can get stuck in their heads quite a bit because they focus on thinking or they need to withdraw to be able to process. And so I’m wondering, does that, You’re shaking your head. I’m wondering how that shows up for you in a work environ.
TRAVIS: So I actually have a counter question, which would be, do fives make good entrepreneurs?
DEANNA: So my answer to that would be, I think that every type could make a good entrepreneur, but it starts with self-awareness. And so I know, but because we’re not just one number, so you’re a five, but you can access your.
Wing and your four wing, and then your lines are eight and seven. So we have access to these different parts and pieces of us. So it’s not just as simple as, Oh, I’m a, I’m a five. So for me it’s like I’m not just a nine. Right. And so, It’s having that self awareness and knowing what your strengths are so that you can build a team around you that fills in the gaps that might be missing, allowing you to focus on what you’re really, really good at.
TRAVIS: Yeah. So, okay, so how does, how does this manifest for me and work? I would say in the last 10 years, it’s changed. So, you know, pre entrepreneurship, the way that it manifested for me is, yeah, I would like to learn, but when I was done I would more explore hobbies. I feel like downtime is not something that I can. In fact, actually me and my wife bicker about this sometimes because she’s like, and not so much anymore, but it was like, there’s times where it’s like I, I have to feel like I’m making progress with something every second of every day of my life.
Like I had to be moving the needle in something. It doesn’t matter what it is. It could be some of the stupidest things in the world. But I have to be moving something forward. . Otherwise I feel like I’m wasting time. Mm-hmm. . So that’s, so for me downtime is not really a, an option. So, you know, going into like entrepreneurship I am up till two or three o’clock researching things all the time.
I think my team sometimes gets annoyed with me because I’ll be sending like, You know, people, we’ll have a conversation about something could even been like a week or two ago, and something I’ll, just like, Oh, what was this? And I’ll be researching it. I’ll start sending ’em articles like, Hey, you know, I found this.
And they’re, they’re like, Yeah, . They, they’ve gotten used to it. But it’s like I, I’m, my brain does not shut off about business and the way that it manifests is I get really frustrated when there are things that I cannot figure out. Mm-hmm. or that, that are not. A, B, C, D. And I can tell you the things that are not a b, CD are sales and marketing.
Everything else I can plug into equation and get an answer. , you can’t with sales and marketing cause you’re dealing with people.
DEANNA: Oh, so you just hit on something there. You said you’re dealing with people so. That’s, that’s an interesting little nugget. My, I was like, ding, ding, ding. So in dealing with people in a work environment or the people on your team, how does it hit you if you’re in a situation where, say someone brings in their, their personal drama or their emotions or something into a situation?
TRAVIS: So I don’t know if it’s because I’m a five, but I’m kind of emotion. And I think you know this about me cuz we’ve, we’ve, I think we’ve talked about it before. Mm-hmm. I am very, very, very good at separating emotions from everything else. Mm-hmm. , compartmentalizing, I guess you would say. Yes. And if those emotions aren’t beneficial, I have adapted or maybe I’ve always been this way where I’m just like, Oh, that emotion is important.
I’m not even going to register that it exists. Right. I can say that with my team, I have become more sin. So again, going back to like, this sounds so bad, but it’s a game. Right? So it’s a puzzle. Mm-hmm. To figure it out. Mm-hmm. , I realize that for my team, that’s important. Mm-hmm. . So I don’t wanna say that I like fake or faint.
Worrying about them because I do, but it’s more like, Okay, let’s get this solved as quickly as we can so we can get back to like not being distracted or ro with emotion or mm-hmm. , like what have you. I don’t know. I’m most of my, I’m, I’m an extremely, a positive person and, and my team gets that and most of them.
That way, or they at least bring some positivity even when they don’t have it. And I think my positivity really helps. Mm-hmm. , because I’m, I’m not a negative person. No. At all. , there’s zero negativity in my brain. So, I don’t know. I’m curious. Yeah. So, you know, in this conversation, I’m curious of where some of these traits come from.
If they come from the, because of, because I’m a type five, or if I’m branching out or if I’m, if I’m growing beyond that because of my experiences that, that I’m gaining as a person and as a leader.
DEANNA: It’s a combination. This is one of those things where the more you learn about it, then the more you can understand how you can.
Purposeful about tapping into those other parts of you that are there, but aren’t the the habitual part of you that you tap into on a regular basis. So for example, as a five, let’s say you wanna tap into the six wing. A six is a planner, a six can anticipate what’s gonna go wrong. A six can. Think first, second, third, fourth order effects because that’s, they’re always anticipating what could happen next, right?
Whereas if you tap into the four side, that’s more creativity and innovation and emotion than a five would have. And so it’s there. It’s just knowing how to tap it appropriately for yourself, but then also, Understanding what the people on your team need. So for example, if I worked with you, I would know that when you’re communicating with me, if I wanna get my message across to you, I need to pull back on my emotions and share more facts and details and information because that’s what you need in order to make your decisions.
Does that make.
TRAVIS: It does. And I remember, you know, from previous conversations too, something that has resonated with me since the first time you said it, is that communicating is the job of the communicate. Yes. And that that really hits home because I feel like sometimes . That, that people get so caught up in themselves myself, include.
Of like, okay, we have this unrealistic expectation of other people based on our own experiences. Mm-hmm. You should know what I’m saying, and that, that has been really difficult for me because , so we’ll take it for example, 20 years of experience in it. And to your point, because I like to learn that 20 years is probably compounded.
The, the mastery that I like to have inside the subject. So it’s not just 20 years of experience, it’s, it’s 20 years of, of like we’re talking hours of mm-hmm. learning and not, Yeah. Not just, Oh, I’ve been doing it for 20 years, eight to five. You know? And it’s really hard for me sometimes because I’ll see my team run into problems and I’ll be like, Oh, this is so simple.
Sometimes I’m not , I’m, I’m not always the best at communicating that. It’s not simple or mm-hmm. , you know, that , I don’t have sympathy, I don’t have empathy. We’ll just put it that way. And it’s difficult.
DEANNA: Well, and I get that because I’m a nine and so as a nine, I can see all sides of the situation.
And so for me, I get really frustrated when I’m dealing with someone who can only see one way of seeing things, and I’m like, No, there’s all these other different ways that we could look at this situation. And it be, it, it becomes very frustrating. And so the, the key though is that when you, when you learn about how you are and how you’re hardwired, it does give you empathy because when you can understand, okay, this is how I am, It’s kind of like glasses.
I have these glasses and I had another pair and they just were not working, and I went to the eye doctor and was like, Look, I know you say this is what I need. I’m telling you I cannot see. I can’t see, like it’s, there’s something not. And they adjusted it and put it back to the prescription that I had before, and now I’m like, see, I can see.
It’s perfect. Everything is perfect. So when you understand yourself, you can have that clear vision about yourself. Otherwise things are really fuzzy and it, it, it makes communication much more challenging and much more difficult because we all go into a situation of, Okay, these are the lenses that I need in order to be able to see things.
Clearly you have glasses and they’re different, but you see clearly because of your glasses, we’re both looking through different lenses trying to see the same thing, and so it’s making sure that you have the right lens so that when you’re looking at other people, you can truly see where they’re coming from and understand.
If someone else gets triggered, for example, you can say, Oh, okay, is this, is this, are they triggered because of me? Or are they triggered because of how they’re hardwired or a previous situation? And it just helps you eliminate a lot of the, the noise that gets in the way of having that clear communication with somebody.
TRAVIS: No, that makes a lot of sense. And I can see that in. So I’m, I, Okay, so I’m reading I, cause I have the Enneagram mm-hmm. thing pulled up and I as I’m reading. I see, I see some of, some of these things like un sentimental. Yep.
self sufficient. Yep. But, so knowing these things about me, I guess what, how can I make sure that as our team grows that I am applying my strengths or maybe even, what’s the right word? I’m trying to think of how to, how to ask this question. Because you said that all types could be, you know, would make good entrepreneurs.
Mm-hmm. , I, I by default see entrepreneurs as leaders. Mm-hmm. like that. They’re not necessarily synonymous, but it’s not all leaders are entrepreneurs, but all entrepreneurs are leaders. So knowing definitively that I am, without a doubt a five, what are some things that I could work on to make sure that I am improving my leadership Capabil.
or you know, my awareness of, now that we’ve had this conversation cuz things are coming to light, what are some of the better? Like, should I be focusing on a type or how do I expand my, what do I call it, My skill set, or my ability or, you know, leading on different types for my awareness. So that I can make sure that I’m a better leader.
Am I, Is that, am I asking the right question? Does that make sense?
DEANNA: that it makes a lot of sense. And so I think the first thing is to be really aware of, of what your strengths are. And you mentioned something earlier about your team and in all my interactions with you. There was never a, there’s never been a question of do you care about your team?
Do you care about what you’re doing? Are you, are you trying to facilitate growth in your team? Because you focusing on your own personal growth as a leader is naturally going to spill over to the other people, other people on your team. I think that’s the, that’s the most important part is really understanding, first of all, what, what are your strengths and acknowledging those and seeing those as things that really do provide value to your company.
So you are an authority and you have a tremendous amount of information. You have the ability to be subject. Even when other people are emotional and if you don’t wanna deal with the emotions, you have the ability to be objective about what’s going on in a situation which is a strength. Because if someone is caught up in their emotions, they’ve lost objectivity in the moment.
And so you have the ability to re, to maintain that objectivity. You are very dedicated to your team and you’re very thoughtful about the things that you do with your team and how you invest in your team. You are logical and you know, the importance of processes and systems and those types of things.
So really leaning into those strengths, I think is the first step. And acknowledging and not seeing it, it’s so, it’s really easy to, to go, Oh gosh. I’m in Engram nine. I can see all sides of an issue. It’s a weakness because I just try to make everybody happy and I don’t voice my opinion. It’s really easy to fall into the negative patterns, right?
But if you switch it and say, Well, what if you looked at this as a strength? What if you looked at your focus on improving your team and how you can do better as a, as a positive that you provide your. Versus looking at as a negative where you feel like you’re stuck because you’re always looking at trying to get better.
So that’s the first thing, is getting really clear on what, what are those strengths that you have and what do you bring to the table?
TRAVIS: That, that, So that’s a good spin because, you know, going back to the previous conversation, negativity does not really exist in my brain. Mm-hmm. , but skepticism does.
Maybe they’re synonymous, but I don’t think that they are. So, when, as I’m reviewing this information and even, you know, every once in a while I think about , even just, you know, my disc. It’s just thinking, okay, am am I the correct type or personality or person to.
Take my team or my business to the next level because like, especially for us, you know some of the ceilings that we’ve hit have just been astronomically frustrating. Mm-hmm. when I can’t figure out how to break through those and it’s just like, ugh. And that’s kind of where some of the, the doubt comes in.
Mm-hmm. and just kind of , I think there’s a lot of frustration because I can’t figure it out. That’s probably really where it comes from.
DEANNA: So my, my question would be how is it that you are involving the other people on your team and tapping into their, I like to say leadership genius because I think that everybody has an ability to lead.
I, and, and this is where you and I agree, wholehearted. I don’t think that you need position. I don’t think you need a title. I don’t think you need a piece of paper. I don’t think that anybody has to come up to you and say, I bestow upon you the power to be able to lead people. Because leadership is influence, and leadership is communication, and leadership is connection, and it’s how we show up for the people around us, and we can do that regardless of our age, our position, our title, and all of those things.
So, How have you, what does it look like for you to tap into the leadership genius of the people on your team?
TRAVIS: That’s a good question.
A lot of trial and error I think would be my thing, Trying to, spending a lot of time trying to figure out what it is they want to do. Mm-hmm. , because I think sometimes what people think that they want to do, what they actually want to do are two entirely different things, which probably comes down to the fact that people have told them this is what you should do.
And so they have planted this seed up, This is what I want to do and this is what I should be doing. Mm-hmm. Case in point. You know, Cody on my team mm-hmm. We have actually moved Cody into a sales position. And he phenomenal. And, you know, making that move six months ago or eight months ago was the thing that finally got moved.
Us past our, what do you wanna call it? Our ceiling that we were hitting. Mm-hmm. in sales and marketing. So I, I guess how, how am I doing that? I, I don’t, don’t, unless I have a process. It’s very exploratory. Mm-hmm. and frustrating
DEANNA: Well, and so that’s where, having your team know their disc and their Enneagram profile. Could be a really powerful thing because then you can look at someone and, and if you know what somebody else’s types are, then it gives you some insight into what might motivate them, even if they aren’t a hundred percent sure themselves.
Because doing this type of work requires a level of self-awareness and not everybody’s ready to invest in that level of self-awareness for whatever reason. Knowing how someone is motivated and what motivates them, makes, makes a tremendous difference in how we show up for them. I use it. I use it as a mom.
I use it as a wife. like it. When you understand the people around you and. Sometimes I have to stop myself and be like, Okay, no, I’m not manipulating people. I’m meeting them where they are. I understand them and I’m able to meet them where they are so that we can move them and everyone else to the next level.
TRAVIS: Okay, so now I have a question as a leader. Mm-hmm. , because you worked on, on my team with the disc . And that was great. And we learned, so we, we took a lot of things away from that. Mm-hmm. . But now taking the, the Enneagram into it as well. are there, so from a leadership perspective, are there certain types that are better suited to certain positions?
Oh, is that a, is that a hard question?
DEANNA: So I would say that, well, so the disc is a better predictor of positions because it’s behavioral. Whereas the engram is somebody’s motivations and their core fears and what they’re trying to avoid, there’s prob, there is probably some correlation, but you don’t ever wanna use the engram as a tool to put people in the right position.
Now it can help someone understand for me, Having the self-awareness that I’m a nine and that I hate conflict makes me go, Oh, that’s why I hated being a school principal because all I was dealing with all day long was conflict, and it was uncomfortable for me, and I didn’t like it. It wasn’t a good fit.
So it helped answer that question as to why something wasn’t a good fit for. But I’m also like, you know, if, if, so that’s the, that’s the motivation part, right? But if we look at my disc, which is I’m an sic, which means I can act like a D when I know what the rules are. So I’m a false D, so I can come across as directive and decisive, but that’s only if I have a really clear framework to follow.
If things are ambiguous, it’s confusing for. And so that’s where I think looking at the two things together, when you can understand what somebody’s skill sets are.
So what is your, what is your dis profile? I can’t remember.
I’m a, Hi. I am a Heidi with a little bit of, it’s like de I’m pretty sure it’s DIC because it was a running joke for a minute.
Right. In fact, I know I am
So I, I, yeah. So mine is dic in my Ds around, it’s, it’s high nineties. Okay. Where mine’s like 10 , which well, right. And so I found that very interesting though because like, I feel like because of my type five, I would be more around, I would, I would feel like I would have more of an s or a. But is it because I’ve adapted into my entrepreneurialship position?
Is that part of it?
It could be. And that’s where looking at a dis profile and seeing your na natural and adaptive would be helpful. So, you know, there’s, and, and that’s just it. You could have someone who’s a certain engram type and they could be a D or not. It. There’s there, it’s not, there’s not a direct correlation between those two.
There probably are some similarities and patterns and things like that.
TRAVIS: I have it here if you want to if you want to. I have, I have the adaptive and natural. Do you want me. Do you want me to, to share it with you? Sure, that’d be great. Okay. So my d my adapted style is D as in 88. I is 38 s is 23, C is 48. My natural style.
Almost identically the same. D is 88. I is 23 s is 40, C is 52.
DEANNA: So D so dc dc dc Yeah, that makes sense. DC makes total sense for, for you, and maybe the D is, is higher because of the entrepreneurial part. I think it’s also connected to when you have the right information, you know exactly how to make decisions and know exactly what needs to be done.
And so that goes along with rational, logical thought. You’re, you know, being able to be, have boundaries and being able to be calm in a crisis when you have all of the information that you need. So all of all of those, again, are strengths that you have. My, and so my question would be, Not knowing your team, not knowing everybody’s profiles, but you know, hypothetically, if I’m a high S on your team, I can see where there could be some challenges there.
And if you don’t have the awareness of what, say a high s. Person would need. Or if you have someone who’s a, A two on the Enneagram, those are people, people, and they’re always wanting to make sure everybody’s taken care of. Do you have what you need? Can I get you anything? I can see that causing some communication issues as well.
And so this is where understanding yourself, everything starts with you. Leadership starts with you, understanding yourself, what your strengths are, what your blind spots. But then being able to understand the people, the players that you have on the field.
TRAVIS: So, I, and I know we’re, we’re kind of going away from Engram into disk a little bit.
Mm-hmm. , but they’re very complimentary. So like looking at Cody’s type mm-hmm. for the audience. Cody is, or was my operations manager. And I picked him more because I felt like he was the perfect right hand man for me, but looking more into his DISC profile. And I find it interesting that I think in our previous convers.
And I think this is probably my fault because I was not asking the right questions, but like Cody is he, he is an isc 77. 77 70. That’s adapted. Mm-hmm. D is non-existent. Mm-hmm. and then natural style. I is 88 s is 98, and C is 52. Mm-hmm. . So I think after looking at this, understanding why Cody is so much better and like a sales or customer success role, like that actually fits him better and me trying to force him into operations was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole
But he tried really hard .
DEANNA: He did. And, and as an isc. So that’s that false D profile, right? So, when those of us that have that false D, again, when we know what the rules are and the, it’s very clear we can do what needs to be done. But if we’re the one making the rules or the one who’s having to try to figure things out, it can be confusing.
And so to hear that his eye is the highest and now that he’s having success in a sales position, that makes total sense, complete and total. He probably shows up. He makes people feel comfortable. He’s able to connect with them. He’s able to establish rapport. He’s able to make them feel safe, and because he has that blend, he’s able to connect with people who might be a higher D as well.
So he is actually really suited for that role.
No, that’s perfect. So I guess to go back to like, you know, leadership through all of these types, really the most advantageous thing for for, for me and probably for, for anyone would be to do as a leader. It would be hugely beneficial to under to have their disc, but then also understand their their Enneagram as well, because then I can make sure that you’re meeting the needs on both sides.
Yep. You can, you can meet, you can understand how someone’s showing up behaviorally, but then it also gives you insight into what is motivating that person
TRAVIS: and that’s hard to uncover. Cause I feel like if you just ask someone what Mo, ask someone what motivates. most of the time. I don’t even think people really typically know.
DEANNA: No, they don’t. I think that, so you know, you talk about wanting to learn and taking in all things and, and wanting to get all of the information and get everything that you can. I’m very much the same way, but it comes from a different place. I don’t have a fear of looking foolish or looking like I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Mine is a fear. Okay, well if I just have one more piece of paper, then I’ll have, people will wanna hear what I have to say. It will prove that my voice, my voice is valid and that I have something to offer. And so I’m, I, I want to learn everything that I can, but I’m motivated for a different reason than trying to become an expert or have all of the knowledge that I can.
I want to have the information so that people will look at me and go, Oh, okay, well she does know what she’s talking about, . And so it’s a slightly different, you know, take on a similar behavior.
TRAVIS: Yeah, and I think, you know, coming back to that point about if I’m shy, typically when I think about me being shy, it’s because I don’t have the confidence in that particular, I don’t have all the information I need.
So your whole looking foolish is spot on. Mm-hmm. .
DEANNA: But if you have the information, then you can show up confidently and kill it, which is why you like to speak probably. Mm-hmm. .
TRAVIS: Yeah. That and yeah. Well, yeah, it’s a little bit, I don’t wanna necessarily say that it’s show offy. I just, I, it’s, it’s more like, I, like just, I have all of this knowledge.
I like sharing it. Mm-hmm. and I like teaching and helping other people. Mm-hmm. . So but yeah, I very much need to feel like I have the adequate information because if I don’t, then I don’t feel comfortable talking.
DEANNA: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Fives, consider themselves to be experts, you know, and, and not experts in all things.
But experts in the things that they’re experts in.
TRAVIS: Yeah. Which I would, yeah, I would say that I, I have an expertise, I think sometimes I feel, I don’t feel confident saying that necessarily just because I. As you learn more, I’m very aware of what I don’t know. but yeah, I still, I still have an air of confidence, arrogance, as my wife would call it,
But it’s, it’s what, it’s
DEANNA: so how many people are on your team right now? You said six. We have six. Yep. So you’ve talked about creating opportunities for people that you didn’t have. Mm-hmm. . What does that look like right now on your team?
TRAVIS: It’s, it’s, it’s actually interesting and I’m actually glad you brought that up because, have you, have you heard of the seven Layers Deep exercise?
I have not. So it’s kind of like a spin on Simon Sin. You know, why Uhhuh, Why, But it, it was, I was recently at a a mastermind event with my team and there was a gal on our, on our group that just went through this. And I graciously volunteered like I like to do for punishment, but it was, it was very emotion.
Which was surprising for me cuz I’m not an emotional person. Mm-hmm. . But it was like, why’d you start your business? And it’s just, it’s why, why, why, why? And really back to layers. And what I ultimately found out from that, the ultimate reason why I started my business was so that I could give opportunities to people that, you know, I was not afforded opportunities in my life.
Mm-hmm. I created, I created them. Mm-hmm. , not everyone has the passion or motivation to create them and can feel very defeated by the world. And so my goal in starting my business was to create opportunities for people. Mm-hmm. , I just happen to be good at technology, so that’s the vehicle that’s driving it.
So how am I creating opportunities for people? so going back to the very exploratory thing, like I, am not difficult with my team. If they fail, failing for me is not a problem as long as they are trying and learning, you know, we’ll use Cody’s operations. It wasn’t a good fit. It took us 18 months to figure that out in a lot of heartache, but we’ve now transitioned him into a better.
Spot. We, you know, we took an intern from the high school when he was 17. He’s now been with us almost five years. You know, giving him the opportunity to work in a field where most people are like, No, you need lots of experience. No, granted, my field is loosened up a little bit, but you know, you think about like, where we’re at now.
It’s an extremely competitive. . And so creating those opportunities for people, And just giving people chances to do something that most of the time they would not be able to do.
DEANNA: Have you ever shared that? Have you shared that with your team?
TRAVIS: I don’t know. I. . . I’m gonna say no, probably not In so many words, .
DEANNA: If you said probably not so quickly. I’m gonna say no. This would be my challenge to you, and I think this is probably a good place for us to me to give you some marching orders from this conversation. Would be to find an opportunity to share that personal side of your origin story with your team. Because I could feel, even though you, you say you’re not an emotional person, I can feel the emotion underneath that statement.
When you were talking about it, there was some pain, there was some hurt, and. Just talking like you talked about the 17 year old. I got chills, and there’s something there. And I think that sharing that information with your team and letting them know how much you value them and that you want to support them and their personal growth would go a really, really long way for giving people permission to say, Hey, I’d like to try this.
Or What about this? Maybe I could do that.
TRAVIS: That, yeah, that’s a good takeaway. And working, like I said, through the seven layers deep exercise, which was phenomenal working that into, I, it sounds so bad to say marketing, but like our story for our company because that, that at the end of the day that that’s, Great. I love taking care of our customers, but at the end of the day, if my employees aren’t happy, then I really don’t.
I really don’t care. Mm-hmm. . But yeah, no, that’s, that is a, that is a good takeaway. I did not think about it from that perspective. I’ve had conversations on it from the other side, but not communicating it externally, but not internally.
DEANNA: Cause I think it’s important that they hear that. I mean, just in hearing that, Automatically made me feel more connected to what you’re doing.
And so my question would be is if you shared your emotions with your team, what would happen? What would, what would that look like? What would, what would their takeaways be from that? How could they show up differently as a result of it? And maybe it’s something that intuitively they know, but there’s something about hearing.
The why. You know, like you said, those seven layers, and I’ve heard that before. I’ve just called it the five. Why, So you’ve just taken it two steps deeper with seven .
TRAVIS: It’s, it’s an interesting exercise. I would encourage you to, to go through it. Mm-hmm. , because it’s, it’s yeah, it’s good.
It’s almost like a little kid. But why? But why? But why, why?
That was exactly what it was. can I tell you? I was getting great, but the five in me was definitely coming out cause I was getting frustrated because I said so. That’s why. But no, and I, and I don’t know if you’re open to doing follow ups, but I would love to take that feedback, implement it or do it and maybe even do like a short follow up and let you know how.
This conversation has helped so that other people that are listening and say, Hey, this equated into this, and hopefully that would be beneficial for all of them.
DEANNA: That would be awesome. I would love that.
I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
And I am again, thank you for, Being the first volunteer to come on here and do this.
It was so much fun and I really want to hear back from you. So once you’ve done this and you’ve implemented it, let me know and we’ll come back together and, and see what came from it.
TRAVIS: Well, as you know me, it won’t be very long. So you will probably be hearing from me very shortly. , which I absolutely love.
DEANNA: Like you want people who are going to take action and that I will say is, You know, you, what’s really great about you and it shows a healthy side of your fineness is that not only do you get information, but you’re not getting information and just keeping it for yourself. You get information and you take action, and that’s another really strong point to you personally that you need to lean into, is that you do get information and you, you take action on it and, and that speaks very highly of your leadership ability and.
TRAVIS: Perfect. I hope other people listening take have that takeaway that cuz I think the biggest thing for me was understanding that my perceived weaknesses are not weaknesses, but their strengths. They are. And people can say, Look at this, because I always tell people too, you know, there’s two sides to every, to every coin.
Again, you know, the positivity and negative. And some people are like, well there’s nothing positive about this situation, but. It’s easy to tell people that it’s much harder to apply the same principle to yourself. Absolutely. And so it’s nice hearing it from someone else.
DEANNA: Well, I think you’re wonderful and I’m really, again, thankful that we were able to catch up because I’m and you, and you know, hopefully you know this about me, but I’m the type of person where if I’ve worked with anybody in any capacity, I get emotionally invested , which can be seen as a weakness, but I like to see that as one of my strengths is that when I connect with people, I really care about what happens and the outcome that you get.
So I really do appreciate you taking the time to do this today. Absolutely. And I appreciate your time as well, so thank you. All right. Well, I’ll see you. I’ll see you soon.